龚鹏程x鲁因贝克｜茫茫海上，谁在诵诗？

龚鹏程对话海外学者第四十七期：在后现代情境中，被技术统治的人类社会，只有强化交谈、重建沟通伦理，才能获得文化新生的力量。这不是谁的理论，而是每个人都应实践的活动。龚鹏程先生遊走世界，并曾主持过“世界汉学研究中心”。我们会陆续推出“龚鹏程对话海外学者”系列文章，请他对话一些学界有意义的灵魂。范围不局限于汉学，会涉及多种学科。以期深山长谷之水，四面而出。

克里斯蒂娜·范·鲁因贝克教授（Professor Christine van Ruymbeke）

英国剑桥大学亚洲和中东研究学院波斯研究小组主任，阿里·雷扎和穆罕默德·苏达瓦尔波斯文学和文化教授。

欧洲伊朗学协会理事会秘书。

她从事古典（中世纪和前现代）波斯文学的研究，特别关注占贾尼扎米的《玛斯纳维》（公元12世纪）和《卡里来和笛木乃》寓言的波斯版本（公元12-16世纪）。

她就这些与波斯文学有关的问题发表了大量的文章。曾获得伊朗伊斯兰共和国年度图书世界奖。

龚鹏程教授：您好。波斯文学以诗著称。在中国，最著名的波斯诗集则是奥玛·海亚姆《鲁拜集》。有二十多种译本，郭沫若、胡适、闻一多、徐志摩、朱湘等名家都译过。无独有偶，1859年英国诗人爱德华·菲茨杰拉德（Edward Fitzgerald）也译了上百首，大受欢迎，甚至被认为是为英国文学的经典。您可以谈谈这类波斯文学向世界传播的话题吗？

克里斯蒂娜·范·鲁因贝克教授：龚教授，您好，非常感谢您的提问。的确，波斯文学因其宏伟的诗典而著名。归属于欧玛尔·海亚姆的四行诗集《鲁拜集》尤其著名，无论是在波斯世界还是在欧洲。

得知中国也知道并喜爱欧玛尔·海亚姆的《鲁拜集》，真是让人高兴！这部作品的故事很吸引人，与剑桥大学密切相关。

欧玛尔·海亚姆是一位天文学家、数学家和哲学家，于公元11世纪末至12世纪初生活在波斯世界东部的尼沙普尔。他并不以诗人而闻名。在他死后几个世纪，一些归于天文学家的诗歌开始出现在选集中。随着时间的推移，归于欧玛尔·海亚姆的四行诗越来越多......然后在19世纪中期，一个叫爱德华·菲茨杰拉德的人在剑桥大学开始学习波斯语时，接触到了这些诗歌。他自己也是个诗人，并创作了一首诗，命名为《欧玛尔·海亚姆的四行诗》。

这不是一首翻译作品，而是一首从欧玛尔·海亚姆的波斯语四行诗中获得灵感的英文诗。如您所说，它成为维多利亚时代英国最著名的诗歌之一，它是向世界介绍波斯文学的关键作品。

但在这之前，波斯诗人，如哈菲兹、萨迪、费多西、内扎米也在欧洲受到关注。他们的部分作品被翻译，他们影响了欧洲诗人，引入了新的思想，特别是新的意象和诗歌技巧。

Thanks for your questions, Prof Kung. It is true that Persian Literature is especially famous for its magnificent poetic canon. The quatrain collection (rubaiyat) which is attributed to Omar Khayyam is particularly famous, both in the Persianate world and in Europe. It is fantastic to learn that China also knows and loves the Rubaiyat of Omar Khayyam! The story of this work is fascinating and closely linked to Cambridge. Omar Khayyam was an astronomer-mathematician, also philosopher, who lived in Nishapur, in the Eastern part of the Persianate world in the late 11th –early 12th century AD. He was not known as a poet. Several centuries after his death, a few poems attributed to the astronomer start to appear in anthologies. The collection of rubaiyat attributed to Khayyam grew over time… Then in the mid-19th century, a certain Edward FitzGerald, when at Cambridge, was introduced to these poems when he started to study Persian. He was himself a poet and composed a poem which he named “Rubaiyat of Omar Khayyam”. This is not a translation, but an English poem freely inspired by the Persian quatrains attributed to Khayyam. As you say, it became one of the best known poems of Victorian England and it was a key work that introduced Persian literature to the world. But before this, Persian poets, such as Hafez, Sa’di, Ferdowsi, Nezami were also noticed in Europe. Parts of their works were translated and they influenced European poets, introducing new ideas and especially new imagery and poetical techniques.

龚鹏程教授：当然，最重要的波斯诗人仍是鲁达基。他在萨曼王朝第三代国王时期，曾被召入宫。晚年回到家乡，却已双目失明，贫困而终。身世传奇，被称为“波斯诗歌之父”。您以他为引子，介绍颂诗、抒情诗和四行诗的发展好吗？。

克里斯蒂娜·范·鲁因贝克教授：您说的没错。鲁达基的诗句可能是现存最早的中世纪波斯诗歌的例子，但不幸的是，他的作品只有一些片段被保存下来。正如大多数中世纪和前现代的文学家一样，我们对他们的生活几乎一无所知；他们在诗中分享的私人细节也很少，甚至没有。从中世纪和前现代时期传到我们手中的波斯诗歌有两种类型：一种是长篇叙事诗，如10世纪菲尔多西的著名的《列王纪》，或同样著名的13世纪梅夫拉那·贾拉尔-阿德-丁·鲁米的《玛斯纳维》。第二种类型的诗歌是非叙事性的抒情诗。

早期的专业宫廷诗人大多集中在赞美其赞助人的赞美诗上；稍后，我们看到加扎勒诗（短篇抒情诗）的发展，这种体裁的大师肯定是萨迪和哈菲兹，这两位诗人生活在设拉子城中。

四行诗是另一种类型，由四句半行诗组成，它必须在结尾处包含一个 "刺"；这种诙谐的形式大多为 "业余 "诗人所喜爱，尽管专业诗人也使用它。

说到萨迪，他的 《玫瑰园》也非常有名，它是以诗文合璧的形式写的，混合了散文，又不断被诗歌的引文打断。另一部以这种形式写成的非常著名的作品是《卡里来和笛木乃》，也被称为《波斯动物寓言集》。

我们还需要注意的是，波斯诗人经常引用阿拉伯诗句，甚至用阿拉伯语和波斯语创作双语诗歌。

You are right of course. Verses by Rudaki are probably the earliest surviving examples of medieval Persian poetry, but unfortunately only fragments of his work have survived. As is the case for most of the medieval and pre-modern literary figures, we know almost nothing about their lives, and they share very few or no private details in their poems. There are two types of Persian poems which have reached us from the medieval and pre-modern periods: the long narrative poems, such as the famous 10th -century Shahnama (Book of Kings) by Ferdowsi, or the equally famous 13th-century Masnavi’ye Ma’navi (Spiritual Verses) by Mowlana Jalal al-Din Rumi. The second type of poems is the non-narrative, lyric poetry. Early professional court poets would mostly concentrate on panegyric poems, which were praising their patrons; slightly later, we see the development of the ghazals (short lyric poems) and the masters of this form are surely Sa’di and Hafez, two poets living in the city of Shiraz. The rubaiyat is another type, consisting in four hemistychs and it must contain a “sting” at the end; this witty form was mostly favoured by “amateur” poets, though professional poets have also used it. Speaking of Sa’di, he is also very famous for his “Golestan” (the Rose Garden), which is written in the form of a prosimetrum, a mixture of prose constantly interrupted by poetic quotations. Another very famous work written in this form is the Book of Kalila and Dimna, also known as the Persian Animal Fables. What we also need to note is that the Persian poets often quote Arabic verses, or even compose bi-lingual poems in Arabic and Persian.

龚鹏程教授：阿巴斯·基阿鲁斯达米（Abbas Kiarostami，1940-2016）也是一位近年深受中国人喜爱的艺术家。他是诗人、也是著名的剧作家、导演。其电影被称为“诗意电影”，如诗歌般具有人生的哲思。最近他的诗集《一只狼在放哨》，在中国也很受欢迎。

克里斯蒂娜·范·鲁因贝克教授：阿巴斯·基阿鲁斯达米是一位伟大的艺术家。他对我早期对伊朗和波斯文化的热爱产生了影响。

当我还在比利时布鲁塞尔的家乡大学学习波斯文学时，我看到了他的一部早期电影。它被称为 《朋友的家在哪里？》。它展示了伊朗一个山村里一个小男孩的一天的生活。

多年后，我发现基阿鲁斯达米从伊朗最重要的现代诗人之一、诗人索赫拉布·塞佩赫里（1980年去世）的同名诗中找到了灵感。

塞佩赫里也是一位画家，他与基阿鲁斯达米一样热爱伊朗的乡村生活、山区农村、淳朴的人民、树木和溪流。

多年后，我们在伦敦有了交集，我得以告诉基阿鲁斯达米，他的作品对我的生活和事业是多么重要。

Abbas Kiarostami was an immense artist. He had an influence in my early love for Iran and Persian culture. I saw one of his early films when I was still a student in Persian literature at my home university in Brussels (Belgium). It was called: “Where is the House of the Friend?” and showed a day in the life of a young boy in a mountain village in Iran. Years later, I discovered that Kiarostami had found his inspiration in the poem with the same title, written by the poet Sohrab Sepehri (d. 1980), one of Iran’s foremost modern poets. Sepehri was also a painter and shared with Kiarostami this love for Iran’s village life, mountainous countryside, simple people, trees and streams. Our paths crossed in London many years later and I was able to tell Kiarostami how important his work has been in my life and career.

龚鹏程教授：抱歉，我说的好像都跟波斯文学的传播有关。事实上，中国接受波斯文学已非常久了。伊本·白图泰旅行南宋时，曾在杭州听到歌女唱萨迪(Sa'di，Moshlefoddin Mosaleh，1208～1291)的诗。

而近年，中国最重要的武侠小说家金庸所写摩尼教故事《倚天屠龙记》更是家喻户晓，电视剧都翻拍了十几版。其中，茫茫大海之上，昏睡中的蛛儿喃喃吟诵的诗：“来如流水兮逝如风，不知何处来兮何所终！”不知触动了多少人。可惜相关的翻译和研究还是太少，目前只有商务印书馆《汉译波经典文库》。而且我们的联系对象仍侷限于伊朗。欧洲，像你们剑桥大学的研究重点和成果，则是我们急需补充的知识领域。

克里斯蒂娜·范·鲁因贝克教授：我主要从事叙事性的、非神秘主义的诗歌或诗文合璧作品的工作。这些都是真正的世界级文学作品。

我对诗歌进行细读，因为如果我们想理解它们的意义，就必须慢慢浏览诗人创造的每一个词和可能的细微差别。叙事本身具有令人难以置信的吸引力；过去几年的研究大多停留在试图理解这些作品，忽略了它们是传达非常复杂和深邃思想和教义的表面工具。

我目前正在写一本书，它将使 《七美人》复杂化并打开。这是中世纪波斯语中最令人困惑的诗歌之一，由生活在今天的阿塞拜疆的12世纪诗人内扎米所写。为当代文学开发的文学分析工具，在应用于中世纪文学时产生了惊人的结果，显示出这些作者在其作品中引入的深度、现代性和幽默感。这种兴趣使我与阿塞拜疆的一位同事共同编辑了一册与这位诗人有关的文章。

我以前的工作是与著名的《卡里来和笛木乃》寓言集有关。我让15世纪在赫拉特（阿富汗）为帖木儿的一个后裔改写的这些寓言故事重获新生。我发现了理解这些寓言的新方法，也发现了帖木儿帝国最后几年的宫廷文学发展水平的证据。

我还与人合编了一本书，研究阿拉伯文、希伯来文、波斯文和奥斯曼土耳其文中关于酒和醉酒的内容。我希望在未来几年继续分析和解读在中世纪早期用波斯语写的叙事作品。

我很高兴能发现中国人对中世纪波斯文学有所了解。我也希望我能帮助这种知识和兴趣在中国发展，因为我的不断努力，正是帮助欧洲认识和欣赏这种中世纪波斯文学。

I work mostly on narrative, non-mystical poetry or prosimetrum. These are truly world-class literary works. I do close-reading of the poetry, because it is essential to go slowly through every word and possible nuance created by the poets if we want to understand their meaning. The narratives themselves are incredibly attractive; research in past years has mostly stopped at trying to make sense of these, losing sight that they are the superficial tool to convey very complex and learned ideas and teachings. I currently am writing a book that will complicate and open up “Haft Paykar” (The Seven Beauties) one of medieval Persian’s most baffling poems, written by the 12th century poet Nezami who lived in present-day Azerbaijan. Literary analytical tools developed for presentday literature, when applied to medieval literature yield amazing results and show the depth, modernity, and humour that these authors introduce in their works. This interest has brought me to co-edit with a colleague in Azerbaijan, a volume of articles related to this poet. My previous work was related to the famous Kalila and Dimna fables. I brought back into the light, a 15th century rewriting of these fables done in Herat (Afghanistan) for one of the descendants of Timur. I discovered new ways of understanding the fables, and also found proof of the literary sophistication in the court during the last years of the Timurid empire. I also have co-edited a volume related to studies on references to wine and drunkenness in Arabic, Hebrew, Persian and Ottoman Turkish literatures. I hope to continue over the years analysing and explaining narratives works written in Persian during the early medieval period.

I am very interested to note that Chinese people are aware of Medieval Persian literature. I would be interested to see whether I can help develop this knowledge and interest in China, as my constant effort is exactly helping create such awareness and appreciation for Medieval Persian literature in Europe.

龚鹏程，1956年生于台北，台湾师范大学博士，当代著名学者和思想家。著作已出版一百五十多本。

办有大学、出版社、杂志社、书院等，并规划城市建设、主题园区等多处。讲学于世界各地。并在北京、上海、杭州、台北、巴黎、日本、澳门等地举办过书法展。现为美国龚鹏程基金会主席。