女性领导力：“自我怀疑”不是软弱，勇敢表达能让你获得更多

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Page Executive推出"女性领导力"专题，采访了微软、喜力、安进等亚太区各行各业的女性高管，从她们的分享中一探女性职场的晋升与发展，感受“温柔的力量”。

As part of Page Executive Leading Women series, we want to highlight the professional challenges and career aspirations of the women we work with here in Asia.

LeadingWomen

本期，我们有机会采访到Elizabeth Faber，现任德勤亚太区的首席人才官，她同时也入选了2020 HRD Global 100。她分享了自己如何与“冒充者综合症”作斗争，如何帮助别人，以及如何在怀孕三个月且无工作的情况下，大胆决定从美国搬到中国的经历。

In this story, Elizabeth Faber, Asia Pacific Chief Talent Officer of Deloitte Asia Pacific Limited, who was awarded HRD Global 100 in 2020, shares her battle against imposter syndrome, becoming a sponsor for others, as well as the decision to move to China from the US when she was three-months pregnant — and without a job.

01

回首你的工作，有什么经验

是对女性领导者比较特别的吗？

Looking back on your career, what are some experiences that were unique to being a female leader?

Elizabeth：我26年前加入德勤，那时我觉得我需要去一个有国际影响力的公司。我和我丈夫都有各自的事业，所以我们希望组织是可以支持多样化的职业发展选择的。所以我曾多次和领导沟通，要去尝试跨部门甚至跨国工作。比如，我可能是德勤中国第一个兼职工，那个时候我正好生完第一个女儿。当时中国一共有六千名员工，我想这恐怕也是HR团队以及我的领导第一次遇到要做那样子一个决定。当然，他们意识到留住我的重要性，以及未来的可持续性。我也是亚太首个担任首席人才官这个职位的，连JD都是我自己写的，很有趣。一直以来我都有机会去塑造一个角色，或是创造一个全新的职位，或是成为这个职位上的第一人。

When I joined Deloitte 26 years ago, I knew that I needed an organisation with a global footprint. My husband and I both had careers of our own, so we needed organisations that would support a variety of [career] options along the way. I’ve come to my leaders and managers many times during my career to ask for opportunities elsewhere, like a move either within the business or to a different country altogether. For example, I am pretty sure that I was the first person at Deloitte China to go on a part-time arrangement. That was when I gave birth to my first daughter. At the time, our business in China had up to 6,000 people, and I could tell that it was the first time the HR team and my leaders had to make a decision like that. Still, they knew that that was important to keep me, and the future sustainability of the practice. I am also the first person in a role like Chief Talent Officer in Asia Pacific, which means that I’ve also been the first to write my own job description, which is always fun to do. I’ve had a chance to really form roles, either creating them from scratch or being the first one in a role.

02

成功路上做出过哪些牺牲？

Considering your success, what sacrifices have you made along the way?

Elizabeth：我牺牲了非常多的睡觉时间！直到去年年初，我都一直在出差。实际到现在，我们仍处在特殊时期，但我每天依旧会有特别早或特别晚的电话会，当然我知道并不仅仅我是这样。任何一个人，尤其是在亚太工作的人，在外企工作都不得不牺牲很多睡觉时间。

家庭牺牲这方面，我觉得外界也会有一些这样的既定认为。最近我在家的时间比较多，也能花比较多的时间和家人在一起。我之前出差多，会经常不在家，但同时，我觉得我们要去享受这种生活方式。夫妻儿女，每个人都有自己的角色，才能组成家庭。所以我觉得自己没有牺牲高质量的家庭时间，也许10年20年后我们再来讨论这个问题，会有更多实质讨论。眼下我觉得比较大的牺牲还是睡觉。

Sleep! I’ve had to sacrifice sleep. I was travelling so much up until early last year. In fact now, even though the pandemic is still happening, I am taking early-morning and late-night phone calls — and I know I am not alone. Anybody, particularly those in Asia, who work for a multinational organisation has sacrificed sleep.

As for family sacrifices, I think the jury is still out there. These days, I have more time at home, and I do get to spend more time with the family, now more than ever. When I was travelling a lot for work, I was away from the family but, at the same time, it’s what it took to enjoy the lifestyle that we had. Husbands, wives and children all have roles to play to make a family work. So I’m not yet going to say that I have sacrificed quality family time. Maybe if we have this conversation 10, 20 years later, we can have a more informed discussion. For now, though, the real sacrifice is my sleep.

03

想给新一代女性领导者哪些建议？

What are some tips you have for the next generation of women?

Elizabeth：我学到的一点是你要学会开口。如果你对什么东西很渴望，有兴趣，你要主动提出来。我在自己工作了比较久才学到这点。所以在这方面保持自信很重要，也正因如此，我升到了合伙人。当我提出我的想法，它就会很快发生。有时我会想，如果我提前3-5年意识到主动开口的重要性，会发生什么？也许什么都不会发生，但我至少得到了把事情说出来的勇气。我觉得很重要的一点是要在你的组织里找到你的“男性同盟”，以及找到你的支持者，这两件事截然不同，前者不一定是你的支持者，后者则是那些愿意为你敲桌子，并且愿意和你一起冒险、站在同一战线的人。

One thing that I’ve learnt is to ask for something. If there’s something you desire, or you are interested in, go for it. Ask for it. I learnt that pretty late in my career. So it’s important to be assertive in that regard. In fact, that’s how I became a partner. I asked, and it happened quickly. Sometimes I wonder, if I had asked three or five years earlier, what would have happened then? Maybe it wouldn’t have happened, but I’d have at least gotten the word out. I think it’s important to figure out who the male champions are in your organisation and find a sponsor — and those are two different things. Your male champion may not be a sponsor, and a sponsor is someone who’s willing to pound the table for you and to put his or her career on the line for yours.

04

曾冒过什么险？

What’s the greatest risk you have taken?

Elizabeth：我怀孕三个月且没有工作的时候决定搬到中国，这是我做过比较大的冒险 。通常我都很有计划，但这件事显然不在我的计划之内。那个时候我列了一张清单去比较为什么要来中国以及为什么要留在美国，最终，我和我丈夫决定选择来中国。我们先来了上海，即便那个时候我已经在德勤，但我在中国还没有一个固定的职位，同时，我当时还即将生育，那种风险真的很大。

Moving to China when I was three-months pregnant and without a job. That would be the greatest risk that I have ever taken. I am usually a planner, but that was definitely not part of my plan. At the time, I came up with a list of reasons to move to China and a list of reasons to stay tucked away in the US. Ultimately, my husband and I decided to go for it. We moved to Shanghai and, even though I was already with Deloitte at the time, I didn’t have a defined role in China. Also, I was on the verge of delivering our first child, so it was a big risk indeed.

05

如何赋能他人？

How do you empower and engage others?

Elizabeth：我觉得我最近对这点更加深思熟虑，我会问别人：“你好吗？”，我也会花时间去和别人交流，去真正了解他们正在经历什么。我觉得我比一年前更加小心地在理解和领导大家，一年前我们只懂得埋头苦干。我觉得这种对话非常有用，能让我的管理更加高效。

我同时在尝试开会的时候更有包容性，比如开zoom会议，我不是说要他们每个人都在那个小盒子的画面里露脸，而是要每个人都有声音。我会让表现力强的人最后说话，或者在比较有权威性的人发言前，让在场的其他每一个人先表达意见。这只是一些当下环境中我觉得比较有用的方法。

I think I’ve become much more deliberate about this point as of late. I ask people: “Are you OK?” I also take time to have small talk and to really understand what people are dealing with. I’ve been much more careful about understanding and leading people now than a year ago when we were all putting our heads down and trying to deliver. I find that just having that type of conversation has been really helpful for me in terms of leading more effectively. I also try to be more inclusive in my meetings. I try to call on people during Zoom meetings, where everybody is in these little boxes on the screen. I’m not trying to put them on the spot, and it doesn’t matter if they are on video or not. I just want to make sure that everyone has a voice. I try to make people who speak the most speak last, or go around the room to hear from everyone before the more dominant person has a chance to speak again. These are just some of the tactics that have helped, particularly in our current environment.

06

欣赏的一个领导力特质？

What leadership traits do you admire the most?

Elizabeth：我觉得领导者需要谦虚和会示弱。这些是近期很有价值的特质。能有勇气示弱是我非常钦佩的。同时，要敢于大胆思考，这也是我在培养我自己的，它确实有助于推进可能发生的事情。我很佩服那些敢于把事情说出来的领导者，他们说的可能是每个人都在思考、但都不会说出来的事情。这对以正视听非常有效。在因为别人的话而感到震惊之后，我能感觉到整个团队会有所释然。因为大家可以集中精力在问题根源。所以我觉得领导的核心特质就是要谦逊、要大胆，以及要敢于把事情说出来。

Humility and vulnerability. Those are the traits that have been quite valuable lately. Having the courage to be vulnerable is something I admire a great deal. Also, to think big and bold. That’s something that I am working on myself. It really helps to advance what’s possible. I admire leaders who call things out, who say the things that no one wants to say, but everyone is thinking about. It really helps to clear the air. After that initial shock of getting over what someone said, then there’s a great deal of relief that I find in the room and in the team. Because then you can focus on what really is at the root of the matter. So it’s about being humble, being more bold and calling things out.

07

你在职场上有过哪些领导力经验？

What are some key leadership lessons you’ve picked up along the way?

Elizabeth：回到伙伴关系的话题，我觉得作为女性确实很容易想太多。这对所有女性来说可能有点笼统，但就是要对自己更多一点自信，因为有时候别人对我的相信可能比我自己对自己的自信更多一点。

Back to the partnership conversation, I have definitely learnt that, as a woman, I tend to overthink things. Of course, it’s a bit of a generalisation for all women, but just being confident in myself, because sometimes others have more confidence in what I can accomplish than I do myself.

08

是什么导致了自我怀疑？

你如何克服？

What creates self doubt and how do you manage it?

Elizabeth：“冒充者综合症”的情况非常真实。我的整个职业生涯都与此同在。我第一次听说这种讲法的时候甚至很欣慰。我觉得我得到了认可，因为我在担任一个重要职务的同时也面临压力，比如我最近担任首席人才官。我会想：“你凭什么能担任这个职位？”。因此，当我第一次开始深入研究这种症状的时候，我感觉自己被证明了。我们的全球主席Sharon Thorne曾在一次播客里谈到这一症状，并且说她一直受此影响。我的意思是，她是全球组织中杰出的领导者之一，但她仍面临同样问题。因此对我而言，我的方式是首先意识到这些问题，然后好好工作。我只能去做充分准备并确定我已经准备好接任工作了。我同时还会和很多心态乐观的人多接触，他们能让我积极起来，给我能量。这些是我处理自我怀疑的方法。

The imposter syndrome is very real. I see that in myself all the time. When I first heard about it, I felt so relieved. I felt validated because I’ve felt that pressure when stepping into big roles, such as my current one as the Chief Talent Officer. I thought to myself: “Who are you to take on this role?” And so, when I first started to dig into this imposter syndrome, I felt validated. In fact, our global chairman, Sharon Thorne, has done a podcast about her dealing with the syndrome and how she’s still impacted by it. I mean, here’s one of the preeminent leaders in our global organisation. So for me, I manage this by first acknowledging it, then just doing the work. I over prepare and make sure that I am ready, because I am not good at winging it. I also try to hang out with positive people, people who build me up and people who are energetic. They don’t detract from where I want to go and my sense of energy and optimism. So those are ways that I deal with self doubt.

关于女性领导力的分享，未来我们还将推出更多内容，敬请期待！

More stories of Leading Women will be shared in coming weeks.

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